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Ex0dus
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 235
Location: Zarasu, Lithuania
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 Posted: 1/12/2006, 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| After reading through the law, (keep in mind that I am no lawyer) |
^_^ Im not exactly the one to get real legal advice from, just a lot of experience in law classes, coppa was a fun one to debate about.
Keep in mind that I am no advocate of the law, but i do like discussing legality of things and this is fun =D
Anyhow to answer your points ^_^
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| While I agree that it's a risk with Coppa don't you think it's a bit impossible to cope with all the laws out there with regard to this especially on a worldwide scale? It gets complex, the law itself is ambiguous for the sake of argument from both sides, and across countries doesn't make things any simpler. |
Most laws are pretty ambiguous, and this one is definitely no exception. I believe that this law is ment to apply to all US citizens instead of directly to your site. Thats where they *believe* they can get jurisdiction at (in otherwords, if you endanger a US childs privacy, youre in trouble).
The internet is still a very new and very untamed frontier, so I wouldnt expect alot of specificness about internet laws at this point. It really hasnt been decided yet what exactly has precedence in terms of jurisdiction (either the nationality of the person running the site, nationality of people who use the site/or the site is deigned for, or location of the server and actual files).
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So does this mean that no child (< 13) can participate in a forum by registering? And when registering almost every site out there aks for information because:
1. You need to have information in the event of a legal complaint arising from the member's use of the forums.
2. You need to have information to make bans more effective. |
No it does not, what it means is that if a child under 13 signs up on your forum and gives out personally identifiable information (stuff ive mentioned before) that it needs to be hidden from public view. The information can still be used for administrative purposes. As it says in the law itself:
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(4) DISCLOSURE.—The term "disclosure" means, with respect to personal information—
(A) the release of personal information collected from a child in identifiable form by an operator for any purpose, except where such information is provided to a person other than the operator who provides support for the internal operations of the website and does not disclose or use that information for any other purpose; and
(B) making personal information collected from a child by a website or online service directed to children or with actual knowledge that such information was collected from a child, publicly available in identifiable form, by any means including by a public posting, through the Internet, or through— |
Better put, you (as owner of the site) and your administrative staff are allowed to use the childs info for whatever you need to do as far as adminning your site goes. They cannot (and dont want to) restrict how you handle bans, email verification, etc.
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| And if storing information is allowed and not displaying the information, what happens in the even the information is stolen? Then what? Does the administrator stand liable for that when the information was actually stored in another country's sever like the case with me...?? |
By storing they mean keeping info past the time that its needed. If the user no longer uses your site (or is banned, etc) then you must delete their info (outside of using it for your ban, as at that point there is no other real administrative pupose you could use it for). In the event that your database is hacked and the info is stolen, then you are no more responsible for that than you are for someone robbing your house. As for the last part of that question, noones really sure what takes precedence at this point. This law is based on the idea that this law applies to US citizens under 13 wherever they go. Whether thats actually proper or not, noone has determined since the internet is still a relatively new place for law making.
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| If they click yes, they can go register. If they click no, they are sent a form via e-mail that their legal guardian must fill out, sign and send to you via fax, regular mail or photocopy via e-mail. I imagine if clicking no simply meant they couldn't register on your site at all, that would also satisfy the COPPA. |
This is exactly right. If they say they are above 13 (they would be saying this since they clicked the link) and you dont know any better, then youre not liable until such time when you found out they were below 13. If they say they are below 13 and they cannot get on your site otherwise, then you should be fine as well in this regard. Dont ask dont tell policy (if anyone remembers that >_<)
once again, this is all for the sake of discussion, I am in no way shape or form to be considered legal counsel.
-Ex0dus
p.s. - sorry for the long post >_<
Last edited by Ex0dus on 1/12/2006, 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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~HG~
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 423
Location: Australia
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| Posted: 1/12/2006, 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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This really is an interesting topic in so far as how different countries see the laws.
In Australia we have very stringent Privacy Laws relating to the internet which we have to abide by.
Every site, except personal websites, must have a privacy statement link for people to view which reflect the laws of this country.
As COPPA has no legal effect in Australia but membership information does, I remove the COPPA from the registration page and I also remove the Membership list from the overall_header and place it in the Admin files so that it can only be accessed by Admininstrators.
All that reminds me that I need to update a couple of my sites to reflect those changes so it looks like a job ahead for me for this coming weekend 
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Ex0dus
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 235
Location: Zarasu, Lithuania
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| Posted: 1/12/2006, 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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It is indded quite interesting. I love law topics, especially when it comes to discussing them in regular terms. The internet is especially interesting how different countries handle things, but I believe that they all have the right idea in mind in that they want to protect those that may not be able to protect themselves.
next thing you know, we will be discussing the GPL =p
-Ex0dus |
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Brent
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 42
Location: New York
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| Posted: 1/12/2006, 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ~HG~ wrote: |
I also remove the Membership list from the overall_header and place it in the Admin files so that it can only be accessed by Admininstrators.
All that reminds me that I need to update a couple of my sites to reflect those changes so it looks like a job ahead for me for this coming weekend |
That sounds like a good idea. How did you do it?
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Ex0dus
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 235
Location: Zarasu, Lithuania
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| Posted: 1/12/2006, 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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I had a couple of suggestions, but it hasnt been done yet, the topic about that can be found here
-Ex0dus |
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Teknomancer
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 335
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| Posted: 1/12/2006, 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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I don't use phpBB so I don't have one link for "<13" and one for ">13".. all I get is a checkbox that say "I'm more than 13 years old" in SMF.
Is this good enough as well??
BTW, only registered members of my site can see the member profiles of other registered members. I cannot prevent this. Is this good enough as well???
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Alan
Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 53
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: 1/13/2006, 1:55 am Post subject: |
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I basically removed the coppa agreement and added that you must be 13 years or older to the registration terms and conditions. I assume im covered  , my moderators have been instructed to ban any users that state they are under 13 years, on the boards or in their profiles.
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Patrick
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Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Posts: 1973
Location: Harbinger, NC, U.S.A.
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Ex0dus
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 235
Location: Zarasu, Lithuania
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| Posted: 1/13/2006, 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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The only reason why COPPA was included in some forum software was to further explain why people under 13 couldnt sign up. So long as you say that people under 13 cannot sign up and it is clearly present, it isnt a big deal whether they know the exact law or not.
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| BTW, only registered members of my site can see the member profiles of other registered members. I cannot prevent this. Is this good enough as well??? |
Since you make it a rule of your site that noone below the age of 13 can sign up, you are protected in this regard as long as you get rid of any info of anyone you find out to be under 13.
-Ex0dus |
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Teknomancer
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 335
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| Posted: 1/13/2006, 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Patrick wrote: |
Teknomancer, it sounds fine as long as if they don't check that box, they can't register and you ban anyone who says they are 12 or under.
Taurus, it would seem that would satisfy it, yes. |
Err.. Taurus' idea of putting it in the Registeration Agreement seems much better than providing the checkbox because I want to make the Registeration process AS EASY as possible. I'm going to switch to that agreement line of text 
Thanks guys.
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