war ... a gaming community issue.

[Psyched]

One of the few things I see addressed here is the difficulty of managing a community that also participates in a war-based game.

The testosterone alone is enough to create problems in the forum ... lol

I have been giving all my mods and globals the link to the podcasts in the hope that it will help them deal with the daily issues we have. Lots of agressive players, lots of chest thumping, lots of complaining .. mercy, the list goes on ...

This evening my co-admin (I just promoted her dispite Patrick's recommendation against it .. lol) listened to the third of the podcasts and came to me with this question: "do they ever do anything with gaming sites? Or.. what the heck are we doing wrong... Admins spend 5 hrs a day on the site?"

Our site is a little less than three years old. I became admin of the forum about six months after the game came online. Several of our high profile players and forum members have been with us almost from the beginning. These tend to be the members we have the most problems with over all. They feel they own the game, have a special emotional attachment to it to some degree I guess you could say. They have a very difficult time with change.

We are also unique as far as game sites go because we strictly enforce a "family friendly" site .. not much inappropriate gets past us.

I currently have a board with 627,553 posts averaging about 5-600 new posts per day.

Our primary problem is that over the few years we have been online our rules have had to be updated as new instinces of issues pop up. The latest change .. thanks to those of you on this board .. has been that there will be no posts of complaints about the rules or the staff, complaints should now be addressed in private message.

We have a LOT of complainers ... lol ... and they all want their voice heard. Now when their posts are locked and eventually deleted they just keep making new posts, dispite the fact that the staff messages them to try and work through the issues (my staff has gotten so they will copy me on almost all communication with members of this type .. my message box is busting at the seams .. lol). So then I end up banning the members for 24 or 48 hours depending on how snotty they get. I have the ability to message the members in game when they are banned from the forum so I always let them know they were banned, why they were banned and for how long.

Basically we grow tired of all the complaints of mod or admin abuse. Its completely unfounded. I think my mistake was not using a heavy hand to begin with. Let that be a lesson to all .. lol .. however, in the beginning it really wasn't needed. As the member base grew, I have had to learn to be less lenient on infractions. They tend to push and push and push.

I read in this forum and hear in the podcasts about people who have a member every now and then who is a pain in the butt ... and I think, good golly .. we deal with at least three of those a day!! So yes, there are days when I feel like my co-admin and wonder what we are doing wrong? We both believe that if we just outright banned everyone who continued to be a jerk we would lose well over half of our members ... lol.

I don't really know why I am going on like this ... when I have said in different posts that I love this place because it helps me see that I am not the only one to deal with these kinds of issues I mean it with all my heart. There are days when I just want to walk away and never return .. but the reality is, I love when the community is running well and everyone is enjoying each other and the game. Just wish I could figure out how to make that last longer .. lol ..

rofl ... just had my co-admin read this (after posting naturally, sheesh) she says she can sum it all up for me:
1. Why are we on line so much?
2. Why do we have so many pooheads?
3. What do we do with said pooheads?
see why I made her co-admin ... lmao .. although I really do think we know the answers, just implimenting the solutions is the hardest part .. as I say, we have grown weary of all the admin and mod bashing. We tend to feel beat up a lot. The wars in game have overflowed to war against the admins/mods.

mercy ... well, if you got through all that .. more power too ya ..lol .. one of the jokes on site is that if Psyched says "I'll keep this brief" you get yourself a cup of coffee and settle in for a read .. rofl .. guess I just needed to vent .. thanks

[Patrick]

Hey,

You kept it brief, alright. lol. I'm glad you like the podcasts.

At the end of the day, regardless of the subject matter, I find that strong policies will win out. Some communities are easier than others. For instance, opinion based communities are rougher than support based communities. If you didn't always have strong policies, but are now integrating them, it is going to be that much harder and it is going to take some time because you (or the last guy, etc.) have established it in a different direction from the way you are heading. It is always easier and better to start off with strong policies. But, that doesn't help you now, of course.

From your post, you said that you have problems with old members. I know how hard it can be to deal with old members, having banned the number 1 poster on my community at the time, a very popular ex staff member (who had people SNOWED, seriously), etc. I've done it before and I'll do it again. Are you giving them warnings? If they disregard these warnings over and over again to the point where you feel they don't care OR if they show a serious lack of respect for you and/or your staff (especially) - end it. If they are nasty to a staff member when the staff member was doing what you wanted and was polite - end it.

If you have a rule, enforce it. Enforce it to death. That doesn't mean to enforce it when it shouldn't be enforced, but enforce it consistently. Everytime you have to, do so. If I remove a post and then a user posts the exact same thing after they have read my warning - most likely, they will be banned.

Although opinions vary, I view temporary bans as a waste of time. When you ban, make it have a sense of finality. What you said about not wanting to ban people may very well be a key problem here. Stop letting bad users come back over and over again. If you are telling people they are banned for this long, etc... it kind of gets to be a game and it's a waste of your time as an admin. One reason you may be spending so much time on your community is because you are spending too much time on individual users, giving them far too many chances and allowing them to come back over and over again. From what you said, it seems there is no real consequence. Warn them and warn them again (unless they do the exact same thing or are nasty to your staff) and again and again, but if the time comes where you feel enough is enough, ban them. There needs to be consequence. Otherwise, warnings are meaningless and won't be taken seriously. Warnings must have meaning. For them to have meaning, banning must be on the table. It must be serious. You don't need to say "I will ban you", nor should you. No threats. But, when the time comes - end it.

You may be right that your mistake was not using a heavy hand to begin with. Probably correct. But, you can use a heavy hand now. You'll lose users, possibly a lot of users, but you'll be better in the long term, in line with your goals. I've never been one to sacrifice the guidelines for the sake of popularity.

I deal with users who are a pain in the butt a lot. More than every now and then. Having strong policies now after months or years or whatever of not having them is bound to create a huge buildup. You are now going to have more pain in the butts because of your new, harder policies. However, in 6 months, a year, whatever... if you really put the time and work in to make sure that your policies are being enforced consistently on everyone and you are taking care of trouble users as you should be, you'll notice that things are running smoother, that trouble users are not as frequent (on a ratio of users, anyway). Now, I know you're thinking "6 months, who has time for that?!" It may be shorter, longer, heck if I know. But, the point is: it's work. You have work ahead of you to get it on track. It's going to be a cold few months, at least, until you do.

Hope that helps.
_________________
Patrick O'Keefe - CommunityAdmins.com Administrator
Author, Managing Online Forums (New Book)
Have a suggestion or a bit of feedback relating to CommunityAdmins.com? Please contact me!
User Guidelines

[~HG~]

Just as Patrick has said.

I know of a forum where the mods can give 48 hour bans to trouble makers and it seems these troublemakers have fun in teasing the mods into banning them. Why it happens I have no idea.

People on the internet are pretty much the same in real life though there is definitely a section of the internet community who have a *power* thing about being able to what they want and get away with it. Again, why this happens I am not sure but it happens.

I have had to take a hard stand at times and about 2 years ago banned my number 1 assistant admin because he took the *power position* too far and breached other members privacy and I didn't hesitate in banning him. He took it pretty badly and posted on numerous other forums that I had banned him for no reason etc etc to which I simply replied the reason for his ban was breaching Privacy Laws. It took him about 2 years to get over it (if he has at all) but I think back and I know that I did the right thing regardless.

As a result of his banning I lost some 20 odd members which disappointed me but then again, he broke the rules. He broke the laws of this country and if I had not stepped in then I could well have been liable in a court of law.

I was also extremely disappointed that he did what he did and the fact that he broke the trust that I placed in him.

I would not (and have not) hesitated in banning regular posting members since whien they have stepped out of line. I have first warned them via email and or PM that they are treading a fine line and have tried to resolve it and if they have failed to see my points in the resolution aspect, they have been banned.

Now in some cases, I have gained members because I have banned certain members so it is a case of you win some and you lose some.

If you ban persistent trouble makers, no matter how long they have been members, then you will in the end, surely win.

Good luck.
_________________
~HG~

|| Click here to view all my phpBB Communities ||

[Psyched]

Thank you both for your responses. I have begun to impliment a firmer hand. It is a little bit spooky as the idea of losing members concerns me. However, I do see the point in looking at the big picture. I do want this community to thrive and grow. I am making an effort at viewing the end result rather than the current situation.

This whole admin thing .. sheesh ... when I was asked by the game-master to admin his forum I had no idea what I was doing, or what I was in for ... lol. But nearly three years later I still find, dispite a few pooheads, that I continue to enjoy what I do there.

Because the forum is connected to the game, much of the consequences in forum end up effecting their game account and visa virsa. So the game-master and I are in almost daily contact with each other. If accounts are deleted or reset in game for cheating, this often ... oh shoot, who am I kidding .. always, spills over into the forum. Resulting in the mods and I having to referee a free for all .. or at least feeling like we had to. Over the past month however, I have started banning (usually just 24 or 48 hours to let them cool down) and locking or deleting threads relating to their anger and frustration over either being caught cheating or finding a member of their clan was deleted for cheating. Gets rather heated to say the least.

I can honestly say, there is rarely a day that goes by when there isn't some little crisis going on, but since I have started using a heavier hand (still sometimes not heavy enough apparently .. lol) I have noticed that the crisis is either mild or disapates quickly. I honestly do attribute that to the help of you all here. I have been doing more reading than posting. This was the first time I decided to actually make a thread about what my world is like .. lol.

so thanks again for everyone's support and openness here. Sharing your experiences has really helped me to become a better administrator and I think will continue to help me grow in the position as well ... gosh I'm glad I found you guys ... lol

[Patrick]

No problem. Good luck.
_________________
Patrick O'Keefe - CommunityAdmins.com Administrator
Author, Managing Online Forums (New Book)
Have a suggestion or a bit of feedback relating to CommunityAdmins.com? Please contact me!
User Guidelines